Jonathan Figueroa

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Aaron Pfeffer

 

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Aaron Pfeffer: Hi everyone. This is Aaron Pfeffer with Spyglass Lending. It is a Thursday. It is 11:00 AM Pacific time. So of course we are doing 30 minutes with Spyglass Lending today. Joining me really cool, really awesome guest, my own personal account. At United wholesale mortgage. And before I introduce him, let me just set the tone for what that is.

What is United wholesale mortgage? They are the largest wholesale mortgage lender in the entire country. And as a brokerage, which Spyglass Lending is when I do a conventional loan, where am I bringing my loans? I'm bringing into the wholesale lenders, not to the Wells chase cities of the world, but I'm bringing to the whole sale

lenders and mortgage companies that compete with them UWM the biggest and the brightest. Of course. And we're going to talk about why that is please welcome. Please meet Jonathan Figueroa. Jonathan. Thank you so much for being here with me today. Really appreciate it.

Jon Figueroa: Yes, sir. I'm

so happy and honored to be here with you today.

So I'm super excited. Me too as well. So let's start with this. Let's talk a little bit about you. Who are you? Where are you from? And we're going to talk about how you landed at UWM. So let's start with, well, as you guys

know, my name is Jonathan Figueroa I've been at UWN for a little while.

And to be honest, there's, I'm an open book. I don't really do too much. I'm 24. I'm pretty young. I just got married in September.

Aaron Pfeffer: So that was fun. Wait, something, I didn't know about you by the way. Congratulations. That's amazing. First of all, where was it? Where was the wedding?

Jon Figueroa: It was in Michigan at our me and my wife's church that we go to her father is actually the pastor there, which is kind of interesting, but luckily he didn't marry us.

He was just like able to be a dad that day and enjoy like his daughter getting married and everything. So it was really great. I'm the youngest of my family. I'm I have a family of six. And I'm the youngest of all of them. So

Aaron Pfeffer: you're saying 6, 6, 6 other sisters and brothers or five other sisters and brothers, correct?

Yeah. And

Jon Figueroa: I'm actually at twin as well, which is kind of interesting as well.

Aaron Pfeffer: Speaking of twins, I had twins back in October, so both of us had some pretty big news at the end of last year, so very cool. And, you know, you said you got married in Michigan, and that is where United Wholesale Mortgage is where exactly is UWM is

Jon Figueroa: in Pontiac, Michigan, actually it's on east Boulevard.

It's like on the main strip on near MLK as well. And it's been there for awhile. We originally started, I think, in Brighton and then we had a Troy campus, and then now we're in.

Aaron Pfeffer: So by the way, there's that operative word campus. And I think people need to understand, and let's set the tone, what this is.

I mean, think about apple at Cupertino. Like they've got a campus, right. Or what Tesla's building down in Austin, like new campus, Google campus UWM is somewhat the same way, right? Like it is massive facility, huge campus. Wholesale lender in the country. You better have that. Let's talk about that a little bit.

How big is it? Exactly.

Jon Figueroa: So it's actually, it's really huge. We actually have the largest or the longest bridge in the U S actually which is kinda cool. And we, as we, as I think, you know, we are, we made actually a second building and then we actually have three buildings. Yep. So we have the main campus and then the south suite and then the south south suite.

And so it's huge. And we have this long tunnel that goes into the south south end and the night.

Aaron Pfeffer: The south south suite, I mean, massive amounts of acreage. How many employees do you know off the top of your head? How many employees work at UWM? I know

Jon Figueroa: it's probably over a thousand people.

Aaron Pfeffer: Thousand people, and let's break that down.

So everybody watching really understands what that even means. There's account reps like you. Right. So how many account representatives are there, do you think?

Jon Figueroa: Probably say it's a good, like 900 of and that's just for the account executives side and then we have. which are Linda's support team, which is like our processor assist team.

Our VVOE team. Our setup team, our condition splitting is it's a whole lot of people that play a part of

Aaron Pfeffer: this team. So no doubt about it. And we're going to break that down even further again for our viewers. So they understand like when a loan is done, when somebody needs a loan, Hey, you've got to go through underwriters processors, people who are verifying your mortgages your.

Places of employment and all of that. And you have all these divisions for that, but like you said, you're an account representative and account executive. And there are hundreds of you there to service individuals like myself or brokerages like myself, because what that is is there are brokerages all around the United States of America.

That bring clientele who need refinances, who need purchase money to you, to lenders like yourself, or specifically UWM again, you're a number one. You're the biggest, you do so much more volume than any other lender. And we're going to talk about the other lenders of why they even get to exist. This is free America.

There is competition, of course, but UWM, still the biggest kid on the block. No doubt about it. And how about yourself? Like how'd you end up at UWM? What attracted you to even go there? Where were you before?

Jon Figueroa: That's actually a really funny story. So before UWM, I actually had no mortgage experience.

And so they literally got me like at an entry level, as a processor assistant specialist. Yeah. And so literally before UWM, I was taking care of my father cause he was like really sick. So I took care of him for a while and I was working full time at UWM. And then once I met my wife, I was like, I need to make a little bit more cash, so I put in my application for an account executive and it took a little while because there's so many people that they're looking at and out of the few hundred that they did interview. Have, I was one of the candidates to get the job. So it was really great. And I'm super happy to be this

Aaron Pfeffer: Well, by the way, congratulations to you. And I'm super happy that you're my account executive, because I think that there's what do you think that they're looking for? What are the traits specifically? Because I, I had an account executive before you, and he had a very specific trait and I think you share a similar trait with him.

What do you think.

Jon Figueroa: Most definitely. So like there, there is a certain type of people that we do look for, and it's just people who are always themselves 24, 7 who's positive who has a really good work ethic, and just has a drive to be great each and every day. And so if you have that, like you are the person to work at

Aaron Pfeffer: UWM

let's talk about that for a second. There's another buzzword positive and I couldn't agree more. You just hit right. Wow is my account rep prior to that, very positive you yourself are. And almost everyone I speak with at UWM. Again, I have a lot of lenders that Spyglass lending is approved with it that I can bring a loan to.

I speak with account reps, underwriters people all over the place around the country, all the time at other lenders. But when I speak with someone at UWM, the energy level is very. Oh, yeah. Positivity shines through the phone on every conversation. It is always optimism all the time. It's always sunny in Michigan, which we know really it's not, but where you are on your campus, it certainly is.

It doesn't matter how hard the loan is, how tough the underwriting. Everyone's got a smile everyone's gritten' through whatever it may be. And I don't know, is it something in the water there on the campus or they just teach you that you have to be that way? Or is this just a prerequisite to get hired?

Jon Figueroa: Honestly, I wish it was like space jam and we had a secret formula for it, but honestly, it's the people that we feed off of. I think that's why it's super crucial. Why. Enforces all of us to work in the office because last year we have to work at home and that was actually one of the hardest times for me, because I'm a huge people person and I feed off of people's energy.

And so it was really hard for me to be motivated and to into like work all day the way I do it when I'm in the office. So when one of us are coming in into the office with a bad day, Like we have our teammates, that's there. Hey, it's not that bad. They encourage us. And I think that's just like the main driving.

So like when you come in to UWM, it's I don't think you ever been to our campus.

Aaron Pfeffer: I'm looking forward to coming. If it wasn't for the fact that I had twins myself here, or there was a pandemic or still is in the country, I probably would've come up for a little training or to meet everybody.

Certainly.

Jon Figueroa: Here's the thing, like if you came to our campus, you'll like, you can just feel the energy through the phone. But imagine being in person, like the energy is so much different. Like each and every day we start our mornings with a huge huddle with all of us and we just kind of pump each other up to seize the day and our team's Carpay DM, that's Latin for seize the day, you know?

One of the things that I really like about working with UWM as well it's because we always motivate each other to not be complacent and always get better each and every

Aaron Pfeffer: day. Yeah. Well, look, this is a grind, this business, as people may or may not know is a grind, it is daily about pushing paperwork uphill and it is daily about just taking a lot of people who would otherwise.

Be a little upset or a little annoyed with how much they have to do borrowers included on the hoops. They have to jump through. And of course, since 2008, since the world let's call it blew up. Right. Just to put it in that perspective, the financial industry essentially went off a cliff Dodd-Frank was enacted a lot of rules and regulations were put into place.

Getting the loan has been a lot harder ever since. Probably for the best, certainly obviously not a lot of bad paper out there being sold back to the markets, but in that respect, what people need to do to jump through is very tough. UWM makes it easier. It's hard to everybody for anybody to stay mad at anybody, you can't be mad at an underwriter.

I can't be mad at an account rep, whatever it may be, because the positivity does come through. And again, there's something about that. And like you said, it's from the top down and you mentioned a name, you said Matt, who is Matt? Let's

Jon Figueroa: talk about him. Matt is our president CEO of our company. I think he's truly, honestly like a revolutionary person.

Like he changes, he changed. I should say he changed the mortgage. With the technology that he's putting into the company, the way he treats us as, as employees, like it's amazing. He's awesome.

Aaron Pfeffer: I've never heard anyone utter a bad word from him out of the UWM side. I think a lot of other lenders who otherwise have to go up in competition with him, don't love this guy, but everybody who works for him, every soldier is just loyal to him and let's talk a little bit more about him and why that is.

When you see his videos or you hear him talk or you see his positivity or his forethought on what it is game-changing or turning UWM into this behemoth, this app it's, again, I'm trying to put this into perspective as a broker who brings loans to a mortgage lender, to a wholesale mortgage lender.

And no disrespect to any of my other account reps or any of the other underwriters or any of the. It's just not the same level of technology. It's not the same level of ability to get somebody on the phone or the access or the, you assist in marketing for a brokerage like myself, you assist in the ability to actually take applications simply through your site.

Whether, I could do it myself, but it's you have the technology to. And make it look like it's my own with my own branding. You have this ability to like, if there's a problem, this client requests service is incredible, and I'm on a Facebook group called brokers are better, which is awesome.

And I love it. And it's brokers around the country supporting each other, but you really see more than anything else. What pops up in there when you're reading the feeds or if you have a problem or you're talking to somebody like who they talking about, they're talking about UWM, I mean 90% of everyone's business goes back through you guys and let's again, let's talk a little bit more about.

And, and some of the other things that he's implemented

Jon Figueroa: well, there's so many things that he's implemented within just the last year, but like one thing, if you sat in a meeting with Matt that he talks about is always growing the broker channel. He's like, I don't gain anything. When brokers use our tools, all I'm going to do is just help the brokers grow because he says the saying where it's 80% of the market is retail.

Right. And then that leaves that 20% for the. And he was like, and I want that 20% to grow and be like 25, 35, 45, like he just wants it to grow. So I think just him having that mindset of always trying to help the broker. I think that's what makes a difference with compared to other lenders, because there's not a lot of lenders that you hear that.

Invest into the brokers that they're working with. I, I tell my clients all the time that I'm talking about, I talk to, I was like, Hey, like when they throw him the objection at me, I'm like, Hey, how many lenders do you actually know that puts in like over $2 billion worth of technology for you to use at no cost?

I was like, it's crazy to think about it, but when we tell people this, they don't believe us until we show them, and so I think that's what makes Matt different.

Aaron Pfeffer: And that's a number, really think about that number for a second. It's one thing to throw out two million, twenty million, two hundred million in technology, but two billion in technology to support brokers, just the brokers, because that's all UWM is it's wholesale lending.

You don't even have a retail side of it, like the other lenders and all of that, but it's again, as a broker, as somebody who needs to. Bring business that way. It's just such a big difference in going that route. Certainly. And to talk a little bit about that, cause anybody watching this is going to say, okay why do I still need a mortgage broker?

If there is the retail side of the things? Think about it like this. And I always like to say it and it's really resonated with people. It's yours. broker is your vessel, yes, I'm going to be getting you the absolute best rate, but it's more, it's more important than that. If you're going to get lost inside of a large lender, that isn't necessarily caring that you have to close on something in 30 days or less, or it doesn't care.

If the refinance takes 2, 3, 4 months, whatever it is, or the rate lock expires at the time it goes up or whatever. They're not holding your hand the same way a broker is through the process. They're not getting it done. They don't have the know-how necessarily, or the relationship, or even, the care that a broker does to make sure this is my business.

I don't exist without that level of communication and diligence to my clients, whether that's refinance or purchase money. And certainly I'm going to do my best or do get you the absolute best rate or even better compared to the other people. And that's a Testament to a place like UWM. Having the ability to give us those rates.

And that doesn't matter whether it's in the low level conforming market, where the rate the loan amounts are lower or high balance, where, again, that's between six 50 and 970,000 on the on the money. And especially here in California, because we are in a state that has, Prices and then every other state or the jumbo market.

And you, and let's talk about the jumbo market for a second, because you guys came out with something yesterday, that's like, huh? What'd you do? What what's this about? Yeah, it was

Jon Figueroa: really crazy. It was actually really revolutionary. I mean, Matt was kinda like teasing us with it the whole time. He's like, oh man, I got this product.

You guys are gonna love it. Your broker's gonna love it. And then he was supposed to put it out last week and we were pushing all our brokers to, Hey, tune into this meeting because Matt is going to announce this. Like groundbreaking. He didn't announce it. He turned all or our heads. I'm like, Matt, what are you doing, man?

You just. And now finally like this week, he finally announced it. And I think it's an awesome tool for brokers to really get into those Relistor shops and build some partnerships with them. Because as you know, the market is kind of crazy right now, and it's more likely not

Aaron Pfeffer: getting better, but talk about this market being crazy.

And we're going to talk a little bit on the second half of this podcast about that, your thoughts on it, but let's talk still about that jumper. Specifically, what is it? What are we looking at or

Jon Figueroa: product is supposed to help our brokers get into those realtor offices to gain those partnerships. Right? And then it also helps your borrower have a has have a lower down payment, which is kind of crazy.

Like people were talking about oh this 3%. This is crazy. And we were

like yeah!

Aaron Pfeffer: Lower down payment. I Let's really hit this hard, right? Most people who have to get a jumbo loan. I'm putting down 20% for the longest time. Well, if you're getting a one and a half, 2 million, two and a half million dollar loan, whatever it may be, that's a lot.

Now I know at the moment you guys are capping a one and a half million on the loan amount and all of that, but still, to get a one and a half million loan amount, you bought something from $1.8 million, one and a half previously you're putting down $300,000 to get that loan amount, to get that jumbo, not the case any longer now.

Three and a half percent down payment, 5%, 10%, whatever it is, whatever the level of comfort is for that jumbo bar. That's a huge difference. A huge difference, especially in a market like ours here in Los Angeles, where now forget it, every property that anybody really wants, starts at a million dollars.

It makes a big difference when you're in that one to 1.6, 1.7, $1.8 million space and only have to bring in, as little as three and a half percent down as long as you qualify. So very cool. But yeah, again, Forefront of doing of making these things happen. And it happens like this all the time.

I feel like there's an announcement week after week coming in that you guys have, tell me a little bit more about some of the other ones.

Jon Figueroa: Okay. So not only what our product or our jumbo products, I should say, but we also have like our conventional loans in our government loans that we do that we deal with.

We like to call it our elite service. So you get the best pricing, the best. And like the best speed for all of them. And you get all that with our regular loans, like standard loans, but with our elite loans, those are the ones that we really want because it's a little bit easier because the borrowers, of course is a little bit better.

They have higher FICO's they can put a little bit more down for their down payment. But. When it comes to all of our products, the main thing that we try to focus on is our client service. How could we have the borrower experience, excellent client experience here at UWM, because if the bar has a good experience with their lender, then they'll come back to that borrower and they will refer more borrowers to the broker.

And so that's like our whole mindset when it comes to our products is to make sure that the broker looks like a rock

Aaron Pfeffer: star to the borrowers. And that's everything. And to your point, that really is, and a lot of people would otherwise say. Okay, sure. Is that really the case? You know what that is the case, the entire business is based on networking and the entire business is based on referral.

If somebody has a really good experience, they're going to go tell their friend about it. They're going to tell a family member about it, or they themselves are going to come back and utilize the same broker, or want to go back to that same lender again. And that speaks to, an investment property or a secondary home, a vacation home refinancing their existing house, whatever it is, as they grow, whatever it may be.

But that's what it's. I mean, you want to get those. There's a reason people want five star Google reviews. There's a reason people send out emails saying, Hey, referral is the absolute best thing you give me. There's a reason brokers need to follow up constantly contacting their borrowers or their people over and over again, or asking others, give me that referral.

Once you do, and you show how. Good of a loan you got for somebody or good of an experience they had, considering how hard the experience is that makes a big difference for sure. Now you had mentioned the market is crazy. Everything is kind of turned upside down. Let's talk about that. What happened in the last six or eight weeks then people know that,

Jon Figueroa: Well, the, as far as basis points it got a few points worse than before.

And I think we're seeing this market go up and down at the moment. Inflation has to do a huge role in this as well. But we were just encouraging all of our brokers would be like, Hey, like we're here for you. And we're teaching you how to use these tools to get these borrowers.

And in to your office, even though the market is looking. Any other brokers that are watching, I was like if you are working with UWM, your account executive is your advocate at this moment when it comes to the market.

Aaron Pfeffer: So yeah, no doubt about it. And let's delve into that a little bit further.

I'm gonna go down that chain of events a little bit further, and to talk about, you mentioned inflation or why have the interest rates gone up? So people, if they've gotten their ear to the pulse a little bit, or if they're interested in buying a house or potentially thinking about refinancing, what has happened in last six or eight weeks?

Okay. We know inflation is runaway, so what is done to combat that the federal reserve has to raise their interest rates. There are two main interest rates to do that. And that of course has an effect and will essentially trickle down into mortgage interest rates and those have to rise, but there's a bigger issue at play.

The other side of that is what the federal reserve has on their balance sheet. And that's, what's tough, $9 trillion worth of bonds. So people need to understand that when the federal reserve wants to, manipulate the currency, what they'll do is they will what's known as quantitative easing, and that's been going on a long time.

They will give the banks money. They'll flood them with money. The money's cheap. The banks get to lend it out cheaply. But on the other side of the equation, what's happening now, quantitative tightening, Hey, 9 trillion is on our balance sheet. We've got to sell that paper, quantitative tightening controlling the monetary policy.

The other side of the equation, not flooding the banks with money. If the banks aren't getting flooded with money, if the bank, if the money isn't that cheap right now, then the banks have to raise interest rates to make up for that. And that's where we are. And all of that, combating inflation and a few other factors that are happening supply and demand, gross domestic product, all of that goes into it a little bit, right?

There's a lot to be said, but that's why we are where we are. And a lot of people are concerned about interest rates continuing to go up. And before we talk about that, Historically, they're still extremely low. Now. They were insanely low, the last two years, as we know, especially through the pandemic and the fed flooded the entire economy with, more money printed in a couple of years that have been done in hundreds of years.

And we know that. But now that it's tightening a little bit, okay. The interest rates are rising. Do you see them going up any further? Is there talk internally at UWM that they're going to continue. Where might they land? And if you don't want to prognosticate, I totally get it. But what are we

Jon Figueroa: To to be honest.

We've we talked briefly a little bit about the market. The main thing that we try to focus on is encouraging our brokers because there's some broker shops who don't even have an office they're still in their PJ's in their basement working, trying to originate these loans. We do, we hope.

Hey, these prices in the rates get a little bit better. But at the end of the day, this was like we're partners with all of our brokers that we work with. So the main thing that we're, that we drive to do is to always to encourage them because, they don't have offices just like us.

They don't have people working around them like us. So we have to be those people for them. We have to. The motivators and like the encouragers and the people who push them to get more loans and do more for themselves as well. So that's like the biggest thing that we try to do for our brokers at this moment.

Aaron Pfeffer: So no doubt. And that makes a lot of sense. Do you think though, that interest rates is there talk of that? Is there an expectation they're going to continue to go up with the idea that the fed is talking about raising interest rates throughout the year is going to end up dumping that paper, starting with.

Jon Figueroa: I haven't really kept my eye on it. And but I hope that the rates do get better because it would just make all of our jobs a lot easier.

Aaron Pfeffer: No doubt about it. Have you seen and we can talk about it or not, but have you seen kind of a drop-off at least in the last couple of months of refinancing.

Jon Figueroa: Oh, most definitely in one of the things that we're trying to do right now is encourage all of our brokers to get part, build partnerships for the purchase business later on in those quarters. Because if you're trying to do like the refi thing right now, it's not going to be not possible unless you have like clients that are trying to take equity out of their home, but the cash out refinance.

Right.

Aaron Pfeffer: Or they missed the train last time, right? They're like, oh, I'll get around to it. Get around to it. They couldn't, maybe they didn't couldn't qualify at that time. Or maybe they just thought the rates would be amazing forever or continue to go low. But if there's somebody who had long, maybe they were sitting on four and a half, five and a half, six and a half percent rates prior to this or arms.

They were in adjustable rate mortgages that are coming due. They gotta do something before they recast. And maybe they don't want to lock in. Now if they have the ability, if they qualify for. So there is certainly reasons people would refinance or as you mentioned, cash out. And that's part of it.

If they can't otherwise get a home equity line of credit and they don't want two loans, or they want to redo that. But this idea of realtor partnerships. Wow. Yeah. That's where it's all about. That's what it is. It's purchased business. And where are you gonna get your purchase business? Yeah.

You're going to get maybe direct to the client or the referrals that we spoke about. And that's always a big part, but where does it really come from? For, for myself for a lot of brokerages, it's about having the realtor partnerships explaining to them. Come to us for the pre-qualifications. Hey, also, and especially here in California, and I'm not sure what it's like in other parts of the country, and maybe you can enlighten us.

But wow, you better get not only a loan done or a purchase done in 30 days or less because that's where it's at and every, and it's a sellers market. So they're like not even 30 days, I want it done at 23 days, 24 days, 25 days. Well guess what, where's that going to happen? You better go to a wholesale under like UWM or maybe even only UWM to make that happen.

Cause other lenders can't accommodate that. Are you seeing that in other parts of the country as well? Is there that ticking. Not just in California, but everywhere

Jon Figueroa: else. Most definitely. The market like mortgages in and of itself is a ticking market. Like you have to be fast and for me as a consumer, like as a borrower, I wanted to be in my house as fast as possible.

I didn't go through UWM, but I did want to get in the house fast. And one thing that I that I'm proud to say about UWM is no matter where we are and no matter what the market is doing, UWM is always consistent. On their turn times. And so I take pride in that, we, we work hard to keep. And we just try to get better and better and faster and faster

Aaron Pfeffer: each and every day.

And you do, and look going. And just that goes back to Matt again, right? His mindset is always like, it's just, this guy seems to wake up everyday thinking about like, how do we don't we just kind of take over the world in the mortgage market while still remaining competitive, but I guess setting the pace, right.

Setting the tone. So every other lender can benchmark or complain about them, one of the other. But you know, like that's just what it seems to be. What are we doing today? What is the new piece of technology? We're rolling out. What is the new loan amount? We're rolling out. How are we informing our brokers?

How are we making this all better? How are we making it easier on our borrowers? It's it's it's that mindset. And again, you don't really always feel that or see that at the other lenders. Certainly. Anyone listening? No disrespect to my, others lenders and either account reps. I love you all.

You're still getting loans. I promise. But there is something special about bringing to UWM and watching it all in motion. It's like poetry in motion sometimes. It's it's kind of scary a little bit you know, like on one hand, you're like, is this okay. Am I feeding the death star?

And the other hand you're like, you know what, I guess I should, because they got the best of me, you know, like the best cafeteria there is, the best campus is there is I'm happy. I'm happy to go eat at that table. A little bit further. What do you see happening? Or maybe what you could tell us a little bit more about what the next, not just couple of months or this year or 2022 looks like what's the talk heading towards 2024, 2020.

Jon Figueroa: UWM we try to stay on top of our game all the time. So we're always trying to get better. We never try and stay complacent this year. I know we have a goal. I think it was a, I think it was like 245 billion worth of

Aaron Pfeffer: loans. Okay. Let's stop for one second. Let's think about that number.

What was last year's number? Ooh, I think it's.

Jon Figueroa: 200. I can't remember off the top of my head, but it was like 200 something billion

Aaron Pfeffer: and now, but you want to eclipse that, right? We're still, we're trying to be better. And you want to do better knowing that refinances is a lot of them are off the table now.

Right? Again, that is fueled the market for the past couple of years because rates were so insanely low and everybody rushed to the refinances and all of that. And now you're saying, even though that that's off the table, UWM still wants to do more in volume and that volume is 240. Billion dollars,

Jon Figueroa: correct?

Yeah. It's going to be crazy. When Matt told us that we all looked at him and was like, man, you're crazy. Like you're, but here we are a few months in, into the new year and we are, we're killing it as a team. And I have to get props out to my, all of the AEs that I work on site with. And even our processing team, that processes all of those loans, like they're working like crazy down there in those trenches, but.

That's where our goal is and we're driving each and every day to hit that. And so I think that's one of the things that fuels us as well, not being complacent. We have this saying around there where say we never relax, we never sleep. Like that's, it's just like saying Hey let's do this.

We're in this together. Let's get better.

Aaron Pfeffer: But I think that people like that, I mean, that's the idea, you know? It's, it's so interesting. Just bringing it right back to the beginning of this part of this conversation, you were a young. Full of energy full of that positivity and a big reason why you're there.

And it just seems to be so part of that, and I think that there's something to be said, just, I'm going to close out on this, for instance, in, in this world of ours in this life, you see a lot of, so many changes through this pandemic. So many young people are like, I don't want to go to the office.

Or don't necessarily go to the notion that capitalism is an okay thing, but let's be honest, that UWM is probably the biggest bastion of capitalism, but there are plenty of energetic, young people who say, ah, yeah, no, this is a great thing. And we are providing loans and mortgages for America and home ownership prevails and refinance prevails.

And whether you like it or not that's still what's out there. So let's do it and let's do it with a big smiling face and just make it as digestible and easy for everybody who ultimately gets it. Oh a hundred percent. I

Jon Figueroa: totally

Aaron Pfeffer: agree. That's kinda where we're at. Well, Jonathan Figueroa you were amazing today.

Thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. Congratulations again, on your marriage on landing, an incredible position at UWM. And of course, for being my account rep at UWM. Congratulations on that. I You get to deal with me all the time. Lucky guy that you are. So I appreciate it.

Thanks for coming on. We'll do it again, man. For sure. Thank you for having me. I'll talk to you soon and I'll bring you a loan. We'll go over and see. Let's do it. I'll talk to you. All right,

Jon Figueroa: bye. Okay.

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