Unknown Speaker 0:01
Hi, everyone. Welcome to 30 minutes with Spyglass lending. It is a Thursday, of course it is August 4, we have an awesome guest. They're all awesome. But this one in particular is very special. We really appreciate her being here. We're going to learn a lot today, myself included. Please welcome to the show, Serena, Gary, and she isn't a sales account executive with lawyers title. Serena, welcome. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. So excited to be here. Awesome.
Unknown Speaker 0:28
And much appreciated again. So I always like to start the shows one way before we just jump into it and talk about real estate or get into it. We need to hear about you. We need to know your story. Who are you? Where are you from? What's going on? Tell us a little bit about yourself? Well, I am. My name is Serena guardian. And by my last name, I'm sure you could tell them Armenian. I was born in Iran. And I left when I was two my family migrated to the United States when I was four. I had about a year and a half stop in Greece. And pretty much I've been raised in the Glendale area since then. And just been here went to high school here went to university here and yeah, LA is is your home. Let's talk about Glendale for a second, because a lot of people might not know exactly what or where that is where that's sandwiched in between a couple of places.
Unknown Speaker 1:20
So Glendale, essentially would be between Pasadena and Burbank, from a high scale. And I obviously
Unknown Speaker 1:30
LA is is Glendale is known for being you know, lots of Armenians. So you guys are ever in town combined. And I'll show you you know, what's around here. But yeah, so this is where I went to school, I had a shortstop in Bakersfield and my, you know, couple years there, but pretty much this is where I was raised. You're all the way up on the 14 freeway Bakersfield far cry from from LA but good to have you down in this neck of the woods. And you've obviously been here a long time. And you know, have you always been in real estate? I mean, when when you got out of school? Did you jump right into it in some capacity? Are we doing something else? Oh, no, I definitely did not get into real estate right away. So my education was sociology I got into teaching I went and I taught elementary school for a little while. And you had some regrets? How what age range? Eight. Yeah, so I did Elementary, I did actually all the way from K to sixth grade. And my favorite was second grade. And that's probably because I absolutely love my second grade teacher. So I had a special connection there. And I pretty much taught all subjects. And
Unknown Speaker 2:34
after that I moved I moved to Bakersfield at the time. And at that time, it was around maybe 2008 where, you know, jobs are a little bit difficult to find. And I was volunteering everywhere. And I couldn't find some worse mainly because they wanted someone Spanish speaking and I couldn't speak Spanish. So I was just wetting my feet getting you know, different places, volunteering everywhere that I could find a radio station or college. And I found myself in a situation where I was volunteering and writing curriculum for a college and, and the gentleman who came to teach a disc class, he was a Keller Williams, broker, CEO or Team Leader of the Bakersfield office, and I just went up to him, I said, this is so out of character. I'm looking for a job I have applied everywhere. I'm volunteering everywhere. And you know, do you have anything at your brokerage? And he's like, You know what, yes, we have a couple of positions that are right about to open, and you should just come and interview with us. So, you know, luck had at university that I went into that situation I interviewed. And right away, I got a job. And within two weeks, I got promoted. And I stayed in that position for you know, about a year. And then we may ask what were the positions? Where would you start out? Exactly. And then when you get promoted to I started off, and I just wanted to take anything and at that time I had my bachelor's and I just was looking for any job at that point. So I started as their receptionist. And two weeks into it, they came to me and they said, Hey, you're doing really good. Everybody loves you here. Do you have two choices? Do you want to get promoted to you know what they would call the agent services and assistant to CEO or you may you know, end up getting fired because they want a Spanish speaking, you know, front desk person that was like, Oh, I gotta learn Spanish now. You're like, this is the second time I've heard that. Yeah. So I said I'll take the promotion. Thank you very much. And I did and two weeks into it. I started you know, really learning you know, what the agent's needs were I started
Unknown Speaker 4:42
you know, helping the CEO in to the capacity that he needed help the you know, my boss, which was the operations and finance manager at the time to the capacity that she needed and really excelled in that position. And I you know, we I had a change of situation. So I was moving back to LA and
Unknown Speaker 5:00
And at that time I, you know, they they're like, we really want to keep you within, you know, the organization, you're doing really well, you can really grow here. So they started making calls, you know, the owner did the team leader did and I got connected with some, you know, influential people back in my area. And they were like, Yeah, we would love to have you come back and stay in the organization. And I actually got hired back as my boss's position. When I came down here, and I stayed in position for about five years. So I pretty much you know, ran all the operation to the finances, knew really the back end ins and outs of you know, agent needs, their real estate needs the brokerage side. So that was, where was this very specifically, where was this? I moved back to Glendale so and I stayed within the same company, Keller Williams, that was just an amazing growth opportunity, I really just got the mindset of what agents needed. And that that became really the people that I started to really understand the best and then and, you know, with at the time with Keller Williams, there was a lot of training, there was a lot of exposure to personal development and growth. And that really ignited the passion for me to pursue, you know, personal development and take all the courses and just, you know, continue to get better. I did get, I did go back to school and get my masters during that time as well. So you were you were full time position, doing that and running the brokerage, but also going back and getting your masters? Yeah, I went to school. And I tend to, you know, when things go, you know, there's personal stuff happening, I tend to go into personal development, you know, people have addictions, you know, they run here and there and my became, you know, really just, you know, investing in myself and you know, getting better. So, so I was like, Okay, let's, let's go. So I went and I, I actually got certified as a John Maxwell certified trainer, and coach during the time I went, I got my master's, I was working full time. So it was it was a wonderful, you know, growth time for me. And where did you find all that energy? So more specifically, what what was the Master's in, by the way? What? Leadership and Organizational studies so equivalent to an MBA? Yeah, okay, perfect. And just kind of to set this tone again, into set, like the timeframe of all of this, because it's always interesting to know this, as you mentioned, you really started on a whim, you know, in Bakersfield in 2008. Right? And I think if we can kind of paint the picture, and not that everyone needs that reminder. But 2008 was the start of the Great Recession, right. And obviously, real estate in particular took this massive dovetail heavenwards. But within just a couple of years, I mean, really started screaming back, right kind of 2010 turn the corner and all of a sudden, everything came back in price. All of these short sales, all these foreclosures, not to mention just standard sales happening left and right. Tremendous amount of investor activity in there. So and Keller Williams in particular, I think people probably want to know or hear about this golden years of Keller Williams was probably, you know, that decade 2010, all the way to 2020. Now, a lot of other brokerages have come about recently, and kind of not to say overtaking them. And Keller KW is still a tremendous company, but really huge, awesome years. So you were there on the, on the front lines of a great company during that time running your own shop and sounds like kind of between 2010 2015 Is that right? Absolutely. So yeah, I mean, of course, alongside with all the leadership that we had, you know, there was so many great opportunities to grow and just personally develop and, you know, just see different aspects of what's going on in the business on the back end of it. So it was a wonderful opportunity. And then shortly after, you know, it was time for me to kind of move on with the position and I got an opportunity, you know, to make a change. And that, you know, led me into exploring, you know, still within brokerages, but different aspects of the brokerage. So I got into business development got into a little bit of recruiting and that aspect of it. So I really got a good overview of, you know, really started from the ground up to pretty much going through the positions within the brokerage side. And it really gave me a lot of good experience and a lot of insight into how you know, salespeople saying how agents think what their needs are, what who they serve, what their population is, and how I can come alongside with them in those positions and support them and their vision. So it was wonderful experiences. Not unlike second graders, a lot of agents, let's be honest. So
Unknown Speaker 9:24
daycare center is what I used to call it. Love that was perfect. And you were ready to enroll perfectly. And as you mentioned, also you had a John Maxwell certification as well. So tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, so as I said, I got into that, you know, as a means of just, you know, coping with some, you know, personal stuff that I was going through at the time. And I really went into it just to invest in myself and just to make myself better and to learn and grow. And really I found the passion of just having this like, longing for continuous growth and continuous improvement. And then anything that I would do, I would find Okay, well I did well
Unknown Speaker 10:00
Well here, but how can I get better? What is the lesson here? You know, these things are happening, but what how? What can I take from it? How can I learn? How can I, you know, make myself better and the people around me better, you know, at that time I was, you know, heavily involved with, you know, staff management and holding accountability groups and offices and, you know, mindset and all that. And I saw how that you know, goes so hand in hand with, you know, your personal development and your professional development. So it just became a passion that I, I will lifelong be a learner, I will constantly, you know, go take, you know, conferences and courses and just constantly develop myself, because, if we're not growing really just what are we doing? So, it's it, I'd never used it as a means to make money, it was never, I'm gonna go and start my business and coaching or anything, but it's so infiltrated in everything that I do, and everything that I see, and it's just, even now with my clients, you know, I have, I'll always tell them, you know, this business is, you know, mindset mindset is everything. So if you are not developing your mindset, and if you're not growing, and you're not keeping your, you know, learning appetite, open, then really this business, you know, I'm entitled, it's sales, but in general, anything in real estate, you know, you know, that Aaron, it's 90% is attitude, and 10% is what's happening to so you gotta keep your mindset very strong. Oh, you make such a great point and appreciate you bringing it up. And I couldn't agree more. I mean, you're, you're really hitting it, as exactly it is, it's so interesting being in real estate, because you're often surrounded, you're in these offices, he's surrounded by other people, other agents, other lenders, other, you know, title officers, whoever it may be, I mean, we're all talking to each other, we're all supporting each other. But at the same time, you really, you know, you're, you're an island unto yourself, right? And you need that mindset, you have to find that motivation constantly day in and day out to get up and want to do this. I mean, even whether it's your passion, or even if it's not, but to do this, you're bringing up something so real. So almost visceral, like, it's, it's, you have to have that mindset. I mean, you can see it in everybody's, you know, a little cubicle or their office. I mean, what little, you know, not not that there's like a cat hanging on a poster somewhere, hang in there. But you know, people do have little sayings, little mantras, little vision boards, whatever it is, you see it in this business more than any other 100% 100%. I know, one of the things that I learned, and this came from Maxwell, but I think it's so applicable. And it really just applies to any any business in any because we're in the real estate relationship business, obviously. I know that, you know, he said, when people are looking to follow you in any capacity, and you want to influence them, they asked you, you know, three questions is, do you care for me? Can I trust you? And can you help me? So those three questions, I felt like, you know, it applied in an organizational, you know, leadership setting, it applied to sales, it applies to your family, it's just that learning really, you know, tied into every area of my life. And that's why it's so important, I think to, to have that in your daily routine of some sort is how am I getting better? How am I you know, making a difference in my business and in the people's lives that I'm around? And how am I keeping my mindset strong when there's so much negativity and fear and everything around here? Those are powerful questions. May I asked a little bit slower? And to do them one more time, all three? Absolutely. So it's, do you care for me? And not question is a matter of compassion? Can I trust you? And that question is a matter of character? And can you help me and that's a matter of competence. So I think in any setting, if you want to, you know, pitch a sales listing appointment, or if you're trying to influence your children, or whatever it is, those three questions are what people are asking to come to terms with? Will they say yes to you?
Unknown Speaker 13:44
Yeah, great, great stuff. And thank you for sharing those. Let's let's segue now into how you got into what you're doing now.
Unknown Speaker 13:52
Become a sales account rep at lawyers. Yeah. So that's interesting when I met, and I'll name him because he was like, the reason I got into all this was Bill wiggly, the team leader of
Unknown Speaker 14:05
Bakersfield, and he would tell me from the beginning, you said, Serena, why don't you look into title? And I would be like, No, I like the inside, you know, stuff. I like the brokerage side. I like this, you know, aspect of it. And I don't, I don't really think I want to get into that. But he would say that and then pretty periodically throughout, like just my transition and you know, positions, people would say you should get into title and I just didn't understand what that meant. Like, why? And so, um, so there was a point where after I pretty much had done all the positions to capacity, you know, I had at least know exactly what each position entailed as far as you know, within the brokerage side. I said, Well, what are my options? I did get my real estate license at the time. And I thought maybe you know, do I want to go independent and try you know, real estate sales on my own, and then title came up again, and I got
Unknown Speaker 15:00
pursued by, you know, a few different companies, few different big teams. And it just happened to be at the time that I was looking. So I said, You know what, I'm just gonna take a look at this. And I did. And I explored it. And I, I always again, this is my leadership background is I 100% believe everything rises and falls on leadership. So who I was in business with really mattered. And I chose lawyers title, because I mean, I just couldn't think of better leadership to be under, you know, at the time, Michelle, while you know, she interviewed me, and she's still around, of course, and she was just, I just fell in love with who she was, who she, what she stood for, and then what the company stood for. And I just, I was all in with the idea of a challenge and challenging myself to take a different role in the industry, I knew that I wanted to, you know, get into sales, but I just didn't want to deal with the public, it seemed like I mean, in the sense of going after, and asking people to list homes in that capacity. And I felt like I really knew the real realtor, and the lender, and the escrow and the mindset and what their needs, when these were the people I had been serving for, you know, 10 plus years, 13 plus years at the time, or however long, and I felt really comfortable. And I felt like I really could deliver on what their demands are and keep up with them. Because this is just what I've been teaching the staff to do. This is what I've been doing. And I serve them. So I transitioned into title and I mean, without mentorship without, you know, people that support you in the company, there's no way you can learn a new business and you know, immediately get into it. But I was very, very fortunate that a I had amazing relationships that immediately these agents trusted me and they were like, you're entitled, okay, fine, we'll support you. And I got, you know, immediate support that way, which I'm so blessed and grateful for the support of just an amazing company and management, which is unmatched in my opinion. Good. Sounds like you've landed at the right place. And obviously, you've been there for some time. But now let's talk a little bit about exactly what title is, because
Unknown Speaker 17:02
it's interesting, I think a lot of anyone who potentially is watching this, you know, oftentimes are just standard homeowners, right? And they they are listening to this just just, you know, regular buyers and sellers, and they get an idea or an inkling of a title is or maybe they've been through it themselves. So they, they know what title is very specifically or they can't remember what it is. But I'm gonna start with duality of a second escrow, I think everybody kind of wraps their head around escrow knows what that is, okay, this is a place I have to put my money, you know, where when I'm buying a house, I have to put a deposit in there. It's held in escrow until we close on it and ultimately all the money is funded into escrow, right? Like, I'm funding my portion of it, the sellers funding, you know, whatever, maybe if they're selling a house, whatever and how they get their proceeds, or vice versa for the buyer. And escrow that facilitates the sale. And it's, you know, it's a neutral third party that everybody gets to have a part of it. But you know, title may be a little bit more interesting, intriguing. Dare I say confusing to people? Let's start with exactly what title is. Yeah, start with that? Well, it's an interesting question. Because if you don't know what title insurance, that's a good thing, because you never had to deal with anything title related. That means, you know, your agent, your title rep, and you didn't have to get into any type of claims. So that's a wonderful thing.
Unknown Speaker 18:13
But essentially, you know, what title insurance does really is, it ensures that you're the rightful owner of the property. So obviously, from the inception of the property, there's been, you know, multiple owners that may have been attached to that property. And with that, with ownership, there may have been different liens that may have been attached to that property, whether it be child support, whether it be mechanic's lien, whether it be any type of you know, judgments could have been attached to the property or to the name of the of the person owning the property. So essentially, what title does is it does an extensive research from to, you know, for all of the chain of title of everyone that was attached to that property, and pretty much goes through and says, Okay, are we delivering free and clear title to this next homeowner, so that when we give them that grant deed, they are the rightful owner of that property, and that nobody else could come and claim their rights over that. And with Title Insurance once that, you know, you're insured and something happens thereafter. That's what you're protected from in the sense that nobody else could come and say, Hey, no, I'm the brother I'm the system that because the title company would have done its due diligence and pretty much you know, doing all the research doing all the surveys doing everything that they needed to to say, Okay, we feel comfortable and we know that everything is paid off the seller, you know, everything is good. You're the rightful owner here is your grantee. Right. And thank you very much for that it's a perfect breakdown essentially, of owners title insurance, right like this is that is the idea. You're paying for a policy to be insured that if anything comes up after the fact Hey, that's why you paid for that policy. You are insured against it clearly before everything closes before the House closes and is transferred to you. The idea is to find all of those problems and up
Unknown Speaker 20:00
One up something that a lot of people might not know about themselves. The liens, the judgments, the the extras against them personally, right? I mean, if somebody has that against them, it may run with their property. And a lot of owners don't otherwise know that it'd be like, Oh, that's actually a cloud on title, right? There's an encumbrance on title that might be affecting the sale of my property because I didn't pay taxes and such and such date, 10 years ago, all of a sudden, this is attached. I didn't even know it right. Or some, you mentioned a mechanic's lien, which maybe you can tell a little bit about what that is exactly. So basically, if you have some type of construction that's going on in your property, you are, you know, you the title company will ask you to fill out it and terminate the package to fill out all this information that you have work that's being done who you owe money to. So that a contractor or somebody else can't come back and say, Hey, I did work on your property, you sold it, you flipped it, but now you ran and you've got your your property sold, and you never paid me my money so that those types of things are all disclosed so that a construction person or you know, someone working on a property can't come back and put a mechanic's lien on your property saying I didn't get paid for the work I did. Right. And the other side of the owners policy, and often, you know, where someone like myself comes in. And what I'm often concerned about is the lenders policy. Yeah. Which is, which is very often paid for by a borrower. And let's talk about that a little bit. You know, that let's talk about the distinction between an onerous policy and a lender's policy, if you don't mind. Yeah, absolutely. So in any given transaction, you are definitely going to have an owners policy, which is the new homeowner is going to, you know, get clean title. And typically, everything is negotiable in real estate, as you know, but typically, the seller will pay for the owners policy and the new homeowners policy. And that price is based off of the sales price. And it's a one time premium. So just if you're you know, like a car insurance, if you're paying for that you pay for something that may happen, you know, in the future title insurance is a one time premium. And that basically clears from anything that could have happened in the past. So that's, you know, your homeowners policy. And typically, there are two policies, which every you know, nowadays, when they say extended auto, it's all the same, that you get that auto policy, which is the extended homeowner's policy, and what is for, you know, typically for, you know, one to four unit, single family to four units, and then doing land or commercial, that would be your CLTA policy.
Unknown Speaker 22:24
And there's a difference. And I'll refer you guys, if anybody wants to get more details on what those comparisons are, and you know, a bunch of other resources, you know, on our website, LA, lawyers title, la ltac.com, you'll have all those resources there. But the difference between that and a lender's policy is the lenders policy protects the lender. So typically, the borrower, if they are taking a loan, they will get a lenders policy that the lender will require, and they are paying for that. And that's going to be based off of the loan price. If you don't have a loan on that property, and you're all cash, then that transaction will constitute one title policy, which would be the homeowner's policy, if not true policies. So the homeowners policy is paid for most of the time by the seller, that's what pseudo stated pretty clear about that. And you as the new homeowner get protected, but you as the new homeowner, more than likely need to if you're especially if you're getting a loan on the property, need to then get a lenders policy. Now you the homeowner are paying for that the seller pays for your own policy, but you're the borrower, you the new homeowner are paying for the lenders policy. And the same kind of thing applies here. The lender wants to know the same thing. Are there any liens? Are there anything? Because why would they otherwise want to know that?
Unknown Speaker 23:42
Yeah, so besides the fact that, you know, they're they want to protect their position in you know, if they come to sell the property, are they going to be the first or the second position to get paid out of that transaction. So they're insuring their position with that. So whether you do a new purchase of a home and you take a loan, or whether you do a refinance, you will owe the lender will always require a lenders policy, and it's for their protection. Now, not to get into details of what it is and you know how it works, but the lenders will typically, you know, require certain based on the loan type and based on, you know, the history of who the person is and the details of that transaction, they may ask for endorsements. And those are just additional coverages that, you know, the lender feels more comfortable to take on that loan and insure their position by saying, Okay, we want these additional items to be covered as well. And then they would just pay extra for those endorsements. Right? Yeah. Love it. And I appreciate you bringing those up. Certainly. And, you know, kind of going back a little bit about what you said. So, again, a lender wants to protect their position, right? They don't want anything to jump in front of it. You mentioned mechanic's liens, mentioned taxes mentioned, you know, judgments, whatever it is, I mean, they expect that the clear that when title is being delivered, it's clear as well. And there are other things that could pop up on something, you know, for instance, a property it's
Unknown Speaker 25:00
Self might have a substandard on it right just not to get too into the weeds in there pun intended because you know, an example of a substandard, right might just be weeds might just be like, hey, this property that's being purchased because a lot of times and I work with investors, you know somebody's buying a property that's not in the best condition, but there happens to be this small substandard on there. But the city said, you know, you let the weeds grow a little too high on there, there's this small sub center. Now the lender has a decision to make whether they want to say, I'm going to allow that assuming that the new homeowner is going to buy this and kind of clean that up, or do I want it cleared up before it closes? Because I don't want anything to, you know, have an effect on my lien or whatever it may be. But certainly taxes, certainly mechanic's liens, certainly, you know, a judgment that's on there, or anything else that can be something that jumps in front or another lien or somebody else's mortgage, right, and somebody didn't realize this, like, oh, by the way, this mortgage is still on here, and it wasn't, and it's not paid off, or it's not going to get paid off whatever it may be. New lenders certainly going to want to know about that.
Unknown Speaker 25:59
And it's and it's for the protection of a lender, you know, and I think about that all the time, because a lot of my borrowers, I was like, Wait, why am I paying for the lender to also have a policy, and but that lender wants not only protection, but they want a sizable amount of their loan amount, you know, to be protected as well. And then ultimately, what you know, let's talk about kind of the end of the transaction. So really, you know,
Unknown Speaker 26:22
let's go back to the first transaction, preliminary title report, that is what's ordered, and everybody gets a chance to take a look at that maybe you could talk a little bit about what prelim is, prelim preliminary title report is really our intention. Sure. So we're really bringing in an extensive search to see again, what has been hitting the property from the inception of it from this owner, what's going on? What's attaching to the preliminary title report. So what I love about our premium report is it has a section called Live look and what it does, because in the past, people will look at, you know, the prelims. And this is confusing, like it looks like legal language. And we don't know how to read this. This live look that Laura's title has, it really just breaks down. And itemizes you know that itemizes vesting, so you know, how your property's held it itemizes taxes, and itemizes any loans that you may have, you know, on the on the prelim Of course, it's going to be referred to as deed of trust, and it will tell you who is the beneficiary of and it just basically breaks down any taxes, property taxes, any unsecured liens, any easements that may be on the property, any CCN Rs, so it itemizes it, so you're able to just click on it and expand it, and it shows you all that information. And then of course, there's, you know, the exceptions to the policy. If there's any, it'll it'll laid out out on Schedule B, and, and then the requirements page, which will say, you know, make sure that you submit your Statement of Information, which I do want to touch upon, because a lot of times,
Unknown Speaker 27:56
delays and cancellations of escrows could be avoided if people turned in their statement of information in early on in the transaction. And a lot of times people will wait until the last minute and submit that to escrow. And I just had a deal, you know, and something at the 11th hour popped up, which was a judgment, which was not something that could just be you know, looked away. And so it would title issues, it's like, it's usually not a problem until it's a problem, then it's a real problem. And you deal could you know, and Rob until it's a problem, and
Unknown Speaker 28:31
I love the way you put that Statements of Information are super important. And what that does is it it puts down the borrowers and the owner sellers and other information as far as their Social Security. And then that's how it gets ran. So is there anything else that's attaching to their name? That would be attached to the property? So
Unknown Speaker 28:51
did I answer your question or did I miss you answered it and then some and outlet let's jump right to the end of the transaction. So right at the end, essentially, title takes this deed, whatever it may be, oftentimes a grant deed or a quitclaim deed or whatever it may be, and brings it to the county, right for recordation. Yeah, so you know, with COVID, and even prior to that, we were doing electronic recording, but now that's just standard customary practice is that we do of recording. So the lender will fund if there's a loan, and then the next day is typical, that the property will be recorded with the county and we'll get confirmation and congratulate all the parties involved, that their transaction is recorded, recorded in the county knows about you and you know, they get to reassess their taxes and that's important for them. And to touch up on that too, is something that I think it's important for consumers or anybody that's you know, watching or considering anything title related or transferring title. One of the things that is not talked about is when you're doing an uninsured deed, so for example, if you wanted to just transfer title because you needed to, you know, add somebody on or take somebody off
Unknown Speaker 30:00
When you're going through this process of of doing a quit claim after a transaction is closed, it's really important that you check with the title rep or a title company and just verify what does that mean for their title coverage, because that could mean that they may forfeit their title coverage, if they're just bringing in taking on and who those parties are. With uninsured deeds, and that's what quick claims are when you, you know, record it, anybody could go record anything to the county. And so once these things are attached to, to the, to your chain of title, when you come to sell, they're going to show up on your prelim and then it's going to be a red flag that says the effect of the deed, and then they're going to have to do their due diligence in verifying, you know, did you actually mean to transfer over and they're going to ask for affidavits. So just because you know, you somebody writes it and says that it's transferred doesn't mean that when you come to transfer it, they're not going to ask that person to sign off that this was a legitimate, you know, transfer. So that's important to keep in mind. And then just to double check, if you're forfeiting title coverage by doing the way that you're doing with those title transfers, very informative, very appreciative. Serena, our 30 minutes are up it goes quick. But yeah, I can't thank you enough. This has been awesome educational, and every other possible, you know, adjective you could think of for having you on. So thank you. Thank you very much Serena Garyun. Lawyers title. You have taught us a great deal today and appreciate sharing your story as well. We'll have you back